April 1, 1995, Tuscon, Arizona
by Randy Koppang
Illustration by William
McDonald
Throughout our learned experience, celebration and circumstance
mark the common&endash;ground of those histories we agree to share.
And yet, can our commonwealth in history provide all of what humans
should know, as intelligent lives on Earth.
Concrescent dynamics of time cycle in the new day, a new year, the
decade, a century &endash;&endash;and perhaps, soon, a new millennium
will literally compose synchronicity. This convergence of moments may
compress their perspectives into a new vantage. At least,
symbolically. Such an enfolded set of increments in time are unique;
and, unto our lives. They are laden with ideological affectations of
anticipation: "The End&endash;Times," "The End of History," a "New
World Order" ... portents of uncommon change.
We shall see ...
However, a theory regarding our chronology is proposed by this
author, as follows: a New Beginning may not necessarily be shared by
all, without a mending of histories as we have known them
Thus, the following interview will shed additional light on our
post WWII/Cold War history, from 1964 on. Specifically, insights into
this period will be shared from the career of Command Sergeant Major
Robert O. Dean, Army (Ret.). Dean retired in 1976 with 27 years of
highly decorated combat service; an Infantry Unit (combat) Commander
in Korea, and Vietnam; serving in Intelligence Field Operations in
Laos, Cambodia, N. Vietnam. Prior to this Dean was a NATO
intelligence analyst, serving Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers
Europe (SHAPE), he ranked Master Sergeant to the Operations
Division/inner command staff, working with the Supreme Allied
Commander Europe (SACEUR).
At Indiana University, Dean majored in ancient history, philosophy
and psychology. He extensively studied archaeology and theology.
Through a Federal Emergency Management career development course,
Dean graduated Masters Degree level equivalency in Emergency
Management. He served 14 years with FEMA; retiring as an Emergency
Services Manager with Pima County Sheriffs Dept., Arizona.
Having been commissioned to serve with NATO/SHAPE inner command
staff, Dean's CTS security clearance provided access to an unusual
internal document. In June, 1964, NATO selectively distributed a
study titled: "An Assessment: An Evaluation of a Possible Military
Threat to Allied Forces Europe."
Dean reports the research for this study addressed possible
security threats posed by UFOs. Thus, the NATO authorization for 36
months (1961&endash;64) of interdisciplinary research on UFOs does
not belie the report title. At issue were numerous UFO overflights in
formation above eastern and western Europe; representing a potential
for triggering WWIII, through mistaken identity! As such, Dean
states, this was "... a military study ... with a specific purpose,
for a specific time, to reach a specific goal."
To the degree this NATO "Assessment" expressed a body of data only
a Security Institution would claim a "need to know"
&endash;&endash;"the Assessment," (if it still exists) would stand as
an historical footnote totally unprecedented in the history we've
been taught.
The suggestion proposed here is: a prerequisite toward truly
meaningful development of/by humanity, in the 21st Century, must be
the resolving of such possible omissions from world history.
R. KOPPANG: Regarding security clearances, and your post
service honoring of security oaths: Your 6/92 Los Angeles lecture
presented an invaluable setting for your determination to violate
permanent oaths, so as to tell your NATO/"Assessment" story. You
publicly noted a Defense Intelligence Agency representative as being
present in the audience! Do you recall; had he attended previous
lectures?
DEAN: Yes, and Yes! He had attended previous lectures. I
recognized him because, when I was in the Sheriff's Deptartment, for
14 years, as an emergency services plans and operations officer, we
worked very closely with all law enforcement and govt. operations in
the state. Primarily, because of the border problem; because of the
drug problem; because of the illegal alien problem. And there is a
small contingent of also, now, the headquarters of Army Intelligence.
I had worked closely with those guys. We had been in conferences
together, discussing this "alien" problem across the borders; the
fact our border is a sieve. The fact is, not only are we getting
drugs coming over by the ton, but weapons are going back and forth
all the time!
That used to worry us; particularly, those of us involved in the
Doomsday Project. You're probably familiar with Continuity of
Government Program (COG); that was a FEMA program! We were concerned
about the "40 lb. suitcases" that had been discovered; that could be
brought across the border carrying a one megaton nuclear weapon. We
knew drugs came over by the ton, illegal "aliens" came over by the
bus load, and money and guns were going back and forth. We were
troubled for a long time. FEMA was troubled by the reality of that
"40 lb. suitcase," which 'WE' developed, let's face it, we're guilty
of it! We're the ones who put the technology together.
That "suitcase" can be carried by anybody; put in a locker at the
airport, or bus station. A timer can be set, the individual who
placed it there can get on a plane and fly away; 6&endash;8 hours
later &endash;&endash;BOOM &endash;&endash;the city
disappears. That is the ultimate in terrorism!
R.K.: I recall Bo Gritz revealing that he had training with
that very type of 'suitcase.'
B.D.: You know how we developed that system? 'We' developed
a land&endash;mine program in Europe, during Cold War years; where we
pre&endash;placed land&endash;mines all over Europe with nuke
warheads inside; that could be detonated from a distance in the event
of a massive Soviet invasion of W. Europe. It was one of the defense
plans NATO put together. The Germans were not too keen about it. But
we didn't ask them, originally. The French were not too happy
&endash;&endash;it was one of the reasons why de Gaulle pulled
himself out of SHAPE. He withdrew from the military alliance in 1967.
We had these pre&endash;planned pre&endash;set land&endash;mines.
They ended up weighing only about 40 lbs. Placed in the ground, you
had a one mega&endash;ton warhead, which is a pretty terrible
warhead. This is ten times bigger than Hiroshima/Nagasaki. The idea
was that if the Soviets ever pulled off their mass invasion (their
tanks numbered in the thousands), they literally may have pushed us
all the way to the channel.
The point was, a NATO option to detonate those land&endash;mines
all across Europe. Well, that would have been &endash;"you" talk
about mutually assured destruction, My God, the fallout from that
would have killed our troops as well as Soviet troops
&endash;&endash;it was a stupid idea! But, we developed the
technology, and now that's out there! ... haunting us, because that
warhead can be carried in a "40 lb. suitcase" by any "crazy" from
Iraq, Iran or Japan or Korea.
I've wandered a bit. Yes, I recognized these guys. I've seen them.
They were here in 1991, when I spoke at Wendell Stevens' conference.
I looked out there, and I saw a couple of the guys from DIA sitting
in the audience; guys I had been in (work) conferences with on the
drug/weapons/ explosives problem. So, I made a little joke about
them: I said, come and see me afterward and we'll have a beer.
The point is, the DIA is one of the agencies given the task to
monitor people speaking out on the UFO matter; particularly
ax&endash;servicemen. It's part of their job. One of my associates
was there at Arcadia, (6/92).
R.K: A friend of mine was discharged from Green Beret
service with a standing security oath; requiring his signing oath
renewal forms every few years &endash;&endash;do you?
B.D.: No. I signed, when leaving the military, the standard
agreement, an oath. You have to swear to it; that I will not divulge
any secrets of classified material, whatever level classification,
secret and above. The levels are: restricted, confidential, secret,
top secret ... there are 40 levels above top secret. I was
required to sign, as standard procedure for career people
&endash;&endash;that any material I was privy to during my career,
considered to be sensitive enough, that divulging it would be
detrimental to security of the United States, I was forbidden by oath
to ever divulge or share any of that ... that is in my file.
Violating my oath, at any moment, can get me 10 years, $10,000 fine
and forfeiture of all my pay and allowances; which is no small sword
to hang over the head of, say, an active duty officer with a couple
of kids in college, and is paying off a mortgage. So, I never have to
renew it; it's for life.
R.K: Is there any special reason why the "Cosmic Top
Secret" clearance you had at NATO is called CTS?
B.D.: It's only a coincidence! When, in 1947&endash;8 SHAPE
(in England they call it SHAFE) was established as the military arm
of NATO, somebody in their wisdom decided to put 'Cosmic' above Top
Secret, because it sounded so ... And in 1961&endash;64 they actually
reviewed the cosmic story: "The Assessment" report!
You had to have CTS clearance to be in the War Room; to have
access to anything cosmic: i.e. war plans, Soviet nuclear targets. I
had access to all that stuff. 'Cosmic' was and still is the highest
level SHAPE has.
R.K: Numerous higher profile personalities, such as Dr.
C.B. Scott Jones, Richard Hoagland, Dr. Steven Greer, yourself, have
combined with representatives for Laurence Rockefeller, and the B.S.
Wright Foundation; lobbying receptive members of Congress and the
U.N., to officially recognize the extraterrestrial presence
phenomenon as an Issue .
Irrefutable government evidence of an E.T. presence has
unprecedented significance. Is it correct to say that National
Security measures suppressing such info is merely an imposition on
knowledgeable insiders "under the color of law?" And, is a
more fundamental concern applicable &endash;&endash;whereby our
"right to know" is analogous to the "right to live," in
"natural law," coming out of the middle ages ... So, by merely
stating there is an illegitimate security breech possible in the
exposing of the UFO data, they compel everyone. But, ultimately a
more essential consideration may be made, comparable to the 'right
to live' sanction; i.e. as an ultimate 'right to know,'
given the historical place at which humanity has now arrived?
B.D.: &endash;You understand that during WWII, a war of
survival, and during Cold War years, which we believed at the time
was a war of survival &endash;&endash;certain steps were necessary in
the name of National Security; to protect our security. And you are
aware that things were done, rules and laws were passed, during those
years, that did indeed, without the slightest question violate basic
points of the Constitution. We gave those rights up willingly; in
fear that the Germans, with the Japanese, might win. We weren't
certain we were going to win. The Germans (being) "that" close to
finding the nuclear secret ... we allowed the creation of a National
Security structure in our country .
R.K: That was the "national will." to allow it.
B.D.: The American people, in their willingness to be
protected during the war(s) gave unprecedented powers to the
government, which the government has never given back.
NOW &endash;&endash;that government, this secret government
&endash;&endash;and I say that honestly, and bluntly. It has become a
government within a government &endash;&endash;It's primarily made up
of the National Security Agencies. Not just one, but about a dozen of
them; some, you may not even know about.
Until about a year ago the NRO was a classified term. No one even
knew what the National Reconnaissance Office was; until someone
wondered what the hell that $300 million building being built in
Washington, D.C. was intended for. They found out it was the NRO. And
the President and most of Congress didn't even know about it. Black
Budget paid for that!
The point is ... we created a monster. And it is haunting us
today. Because we do indeed have a
government-within&endash;a&endash;government. Making policy decisions
affecting lives of every man, woman and child in this country;
affecting lives of every human being on this planet. Now, these dudes
are not elected or responsive, or accountable to (the) Executive, or
Legislative. And most of the budgetary moneys that they have, are not
even accountable &endash;&endash;they call them 'Black Budget'
programs. When Tim Weiner wrote his book, "Blank Check," in
1986, that "Black Budget" was at least $3 billion. Today, it is $50
billion.
The point is, we created that! We've got to make it stop or we can
kiss our Constitution goodbye. I've been talking to some cynics who
say it's already too late; that the Constitution is (now) a
meaningless piece of paper ...
R.K: Yes. But those supporting the "patriot" movement have
applied a lot of legal analysis to this Constitutional Crisis. They
are of the opinion there's no reason to be so cynical. Because, as
Sheriff Richard Mack proved in winning his suite against the "Brady
Bill," the passage of laws eroding our Constitution restrict society
under 'Color of Law' only. This creates a 'police state.'
People are reminded, law isn't necessarily absolute
&endash;&endash;the true law is the Constitution, based upon the
beautiful idea of human rights. In your recent lectures, you favor
exhibiting a copy of our Constitution to your audience. Discuss your
thinking on how inalienable rights apply to a public "need to
know"...
B.D.: Well, I try to remind people. It's simply a
realization: people themselves should understand they are the
government! For God sake! They've forgotten this. That's all I'm
trying to do. I have a quote here, in a copy of a letter I sent my
two senators, from Arizona. I quote Lincoln. I am a firm believer in
the people; if given the truth they can be depended on to meet any
national crisis. The point is, to bring them the facts.
I'm reminding Senators McCain and Kyle of their responsibility. I
quote Lincoln and I do it in my speeches.
I hold up the Constitution, because I want people to pay attention
to the first three words: "We, the people..." They've
forgotten, they are the country, they are the law, they are the
Constitution &endash;&endash;THEY, are the Government for God's
sake!
My point is, we have given away our freedoms. I don't think
people realize it. Having been on the inside &endash;&endash;not only
for 27 years in the Army, but for 14 years working with FEMA
&endash;&endash;I saw it first hand! We've given away some of our
most precious rights: and those are the rights to know and to
participate; as enlightened individuals of our Government.
They've taken that from us!
National Security &endash;&endash;bullshit! &endash;&endash;it has
nothing to do with National Security. It has to do with a few
arrogant bureaucrats who are sitting on the greatest story of all
time(!); for a number of reasons. Originally, their fear (in the late
'40s) was based on some legitimate doubts. They did not know what
that alien visitation meant. Being military, Harry Truman and General
Hoyt Vandenberg immediately assumed we're going to be invaded. They'd
recalled old Orson Welles' "War of the Worlds," 1938. And that was a
factor in their decision.
R.K: &endash;Yes, but how much weight did such a fear have
in a decision process with many different considerations?
B.D.: To Vandenberg, it could have been very important. To Truman, the Cold War could have been the major factor.
At that time, during the McCarthy years, my God, fear and paranoia
was running rampant, all over the country. We thought, at highest
levels of military thinking, that if the Russians could get a handle
on that propulsion system (of UFOs) the Cold War is over and we lost.
If we can get a handle on that propulsion system these objects
are obviously demonstrating &endash;&endash;we'll win, the
Cold War will be over, the Russians will have to capitulate. The Cold
War, the fear, the fact that we were dealing with a technology so far
beyond anything either we or the Russians could grasp; whatever that
technology was, we gotta have it! And that's one of the
reasons the Above Top Secret level was placed on it. That's
why the Canadians, our allies, couldn't even begin to get a little
info, back in the early '50s. The Canadians knew what was happening.
They thought they could ask Washington to cooperate. Washington just
froze 'em out!
R.K: You imply there, that an ongoing program existed to
that degree. So, let's consider: History shows, given your Canadian
reference, that it's unlikely the government will reverse
policy on directly exhibiting crashed saucer remains, etc. (if any do
exist). Yet, as you pointed out, "We, the people..." could consider
it an ultimate infringement of Article I, Section 9, Clause 7 of the
Constitution; to continually research, retrieve evidence, and study
it without a publicly accessible accounting for such expenditures of
our taxes? If there exists a billion(s) dollar "Black Budget," in
times of budgetary "cutback" &endash;&endash;that's a lot of money in
times of deficit ...
B.D.: That, in itself is unconstitutional. And who's
cutting back, Randy? Clinton just added $25 billion ...
R.K: . . . Yeah, to a military budget of $1.5 trillion,
with a 'T'!
'We, the people'' are the Constitutionally mandated keepers
of ultimate power in a system, which, as Thomas Jefferson stated:
"... we've given you a republic &endash;&endash;if you can
keep it."
Having had a CTS clearance in NATO &endash;&endash;how do you feel
we can reconcile the Intelligence community's exclusive "need to
know" vs. the public "right" to share in the knowledge of that
which portends transcendental change?
B.D.: You've got another thing to consider here. You talk
about the intelligence community. It isn't a solid block, Randy. The
Intel Agencies feed on each other continually. And the big fuss is
turf and money. They are always vying for more power and more
money. There has been a difference of opinion within the Intel
communities, for at least the last 25 years; on this subject, should
we let it out, should the American people be told the truth
&endash;&endash;yes, or no? This has gone back forth heatedly within
the communities themselves. CIA fusses with NSA, NSA fusses with DIA;
it's turf, it's money and it's power. At the moment, the decision has
still been, to my knowledge &endash;&endash;No, we can't let
them know. There are indications that maybe, at some level, a policy
decision has been to slowly, gently, in a non threatening way to get
some of this reality out; these leaked documents; the fact that some
big mouth like me is violating his oath and getting away with it.
I've thrown the gauntlet down and demanded they come and sue me! Take
my pension away, put me in Fort Leavenworth. And they haven't. I
said, look guys, if you do I can subpoena S witnesses, I can subpoena
documents that I happened to know. We'll have a helluva nice case;
we'll make a real "donnybrook" out of this!
Well, I'm still getting away with what I'm doing. How effective I
am, I don't know? There does seem to be a gentle "trickle" of
classified info, either being leaked, or allowed to be talked about;
indicating to me, somebody wants it done.
R.K: And such leaked material &endash;&endash;apparently
bona fide documents or hoaxed to appear authentic
&endash;&endash;cannot be seen to reflect a consensus on the part of
the Intel Agencies?
B.D.: Exactly. They've been arguing amongst themselves for
so long, you can't consider them a block; in deciding should we or
should we not allow the "profane" to access some of this info.
R.K: For many reasons, technological and perceptual,
a "global mind change" is occurring! Throughout history, such
changes in the mind&endash;collective of society, affects fundamental
change in society. In our most recent times (the last 400 years),
social and governmental change can be realized when the
'Citizenry' (polis) recall: no matter how powerful the economic,
political or even military institutions seem &endash;&endash;they
only persist because perceptions of "We, the people" grant
them legitimacy! At this time, there are substantial numbers
("patriots") refusing such legitimacy; and growing. A major
conceptual motive of contention for this is a perceived
Constitutional Crisis through the "covering up" of covert programs
lacking congressional oversight. Some of these programs have involved
researching and/or refusing to publicly share evidence of a possible
E.T. presence.
Other then the 'Assessment,' can you comment on whether it was the
ultimate E.T. research project?
B.D.: I would not like to think the "Assessment," a 3 year
study, reflected the very finest piece of work that could be done of
that subject. I hope that in our own government, at certain levels,
much more thorough research programs have been conducted. I learned,
after leaving SHAPE/NATO, in 1967, that conclusions of the
'Assessment,' in 1964, had been known essentially, as early as
1948&endash;9 by our government; by at least the Air Force; after the
crash at Roswell &endash;&endash;and Roswell was the tip of an
iceberg. I know of at least a dozen crash retrievals involving bodies
and survivors; besides Roswell &endash;&endash;our government knew in
1949 essentially the same thing the SHAPE&endash;"Assessment"
published, in 1964. But, they kept it at the highest level
classification; didn't share it with anybody; didn't share it with
our NATO Allies. That's why the Air Marshall and General Lymon
Lemnitzer had to conduct the 'Assessment' in&endash;house, from '61
to '64. They could get nothing from London and Washington on the
subject. We knew some of these things that early!
I hope a thorough evaluation of (E.T. presence) has been done and
will be shared with the American people, by their government. I've
talked to people on the inside who say amazing studies have been
conducted; not only in laboratories; not only in research; not only
in hard science. But amazing things have been learned psychologically
about the human condition, the human potential.
Do you know there is an entire operation going on at Los Alamos
involving "Remote Viewing," and that it works? We've got people who
are trained; who can go into a darkened room, and spend a few hours
and return to tell what went on yesterday, or this morning in Moscow,
in the Kremlin .. without physically going there?
We have developed techniques and technologies &endash;knowledge
processes &endash;&endash;over the years that literally
revolutionized old traditional ideas of Einstein/Newtonian physics.
We've learned in the science labs that the speed of light is not the
ultimate (see Science News, 6/3/95); e.g. quantum particles.
How can you tell "the people," we've learned that minute
sub&endash;atomic particles appear to manifest intelligence?
The UFO matter is simply the tiny, tiny tip of an iceberg that
is so enormous &endash;&endash;when the truth comes out, it's going
to change the whole world!
A lot of government scientists and a number of government/military
planners know these things. That's why many of them say 'Hell, no,'
we're never gonna let that out. The 'people' will never be prepared
for that.
Roughly twelve years ago, I've heard from a number of independent
sources, they did indeed pull off a sustained controlled fusion
reaction, at Los Alamos; using lasers. This little piece of
scientific knowledge, in itself, can blow the world up, in terms of
global economics. Fusion means endless cheap power. Think what it
could do to the oil companies, auto industry, steel industry and
world economy? Now I'm making a point here: I understand why that
kind of knowledge must be released carefully; shared, carefully. Or,
the whole damn house of cards is going to fall around us. We (could)
have massive world economic collapse, starvation, riots, blood in the
streets, etc. So, I understand something that sensitive won't be
released tomorrow. It's going to be released gently and carefully
through the process of technology; probably for the next 30&endash;50
years.
R.K: How about implications of what we've deduced by
observing E.T. craft maneuverability; what some refer to as the "free
energy" powering their progravitic levitation propulsion? A self
contained gravitation field propulsion system, powered by some
unlimited energy source. There again, a part of the "crashed
saucer"/back engineering scheme, which may be a major secret being
concealed; an ultimate technology.
B.D.: There's a lot more to it ... First of all, there was
a crash at Kingman, Arizona (about 1972). Where we retrieved some
bodies and hardware. The hardware was in pretty good shape. Do you
know what the biggest damn secret of all was &endash;&endash;they
could not find a propulsion system in that ship! They could not find
a motor.
What made it fly; what caused it to crash; how was it propelled;
how was it controlled ... to my knowledge they never did find out.
Maybe they have, in the years ... there have been a total of 12
("crashes") that I'm aware of.
R.K: How many "crashes" were mentioned in the
"Assessment?"
B.D.: Not too many. The 'Assessment' was a military study
conducted with a specific purpose, for a specific time to reach a
specific goal. (In) 36 months of work ... they determined, no, there
apparently was no threat. The demonstrated technology was so far
beyond anything we or the Russians had, that if "they"
&endash;&endash;at that point no one had any idea who "they" were
&endash;&endash;had demonstrated their technology so repeatedly,
apparently no hostility (was intended). ~ Because, technologically,
if there had been, it would've been over a long time ago.
(The 'Assessment' concluded) that ongoing research be continued on
the subject.
R.K: Did they mention 'Roswell'?
B.D.: No. They only mentioned things they had access to.
Like the case of "Operation Mainbrace": a NATO fleet exercise, taken
place in the North Sea in the late '50s/early '60s. What happened is
that a couple UFOs flew over the fleet exercise; hovered the aircraft
carrier, and brought the fleet to a screaming halt. Now, the photos
were taken, hundreds of men on the ships saw the UFOs. (The
'Assessment' contained) photos of the 'Mainbrace' sightings; pictures
taken aboard the aircraft carrier, of the object hovering above the
flight deck. A couple hundred feet above.
R.K: Public acceptance of an E.T. presence translates into
a step towards completion of a "phase&endash;transition" in
consciousness; in foreign relations. Please outline your informed
opinion regarding institutional movements in this direction; e.g. the
U.N.?
B.D.: I think there's a fairly decent chance the U.N. may
do something positive on this subject. I talked to people who know
Mrs. Boutros&endash;Ghali, I've talked to Muhammad Ramadan and his
interest in it is pretty intense. Mrs. Boutros&endash;Ghali,
apparently is quite involved and interested. I don't know how much
her husband is. I think there is a movement in the U.N. to open up to
the reality. And do it on the floor of the U.N.; perhaps is where it
should be. I do believe if this whole issue ever comes out the way
I'd like to see it come out &endash;&endash;that a multinational,
interdenominational program is probably necessary. Rather than a
unilateral U.S. piece of info. I think this reality should involve
every major religion. The Dalai Llama should be (involved). This
reality is gonna have an impact that's going to affect the world. So,
it's got to be international and interdenominational in its release.
Everybody on this planet has got to look at this and not consider it
a threat.
R.K: For those not totally familiar with UFOlogy
&endash;&endash;, here's a more mundane thought re what all this may
mean. Recently, I heard an author interviewed in a live radio review
of his new book, titled "The End of Victory Culture," by Tom
Engelhardt. With the end of WWII, he accurately observed America
(perhaps the western powers) entering an ahistorical era,
totally unlike the culture forming chain of historical landmarks
(i.e. wars), recorded through civilized time, as we know it. As we
move further into this period (note that all armed conflicts you
bravely volunteered for were not Constitutionally declared
WARS; per se), it was observed, the country moves EVER DEEPER into a
kind of limbo. A place where there is no motivational consensus upon
which to base our/the National Will; or, a socioeconomic will.
Bismark said, "War is simply another extension of political will."
Those who control, through social engineering schemes, direct society
in accord with their "illumined" priorities &endash;&endash;without a
national will of purpose, we have profiteering. But we go nowhere!
And the economic lifeblood of society lacks an enthusiasm to commit
(unknowingly) toward what the elite need to occur. So, mere
profiteering won't last. The Cold War was a surrogate National Will,
to root out communism and was short lived &endash;&endash;making this
limbo that much more apparent ...
The Apollo moon program and exploration of Space should have
filled this need. But it's going nowhere; the budgetary crisis is
grounding it ... Comments?
B.D.: That's why we are reaching this crucial moment in
"history," I suspect, where this is a given in the universe, on
hundreds of thousands of worlds; where intelligent species reach this
crucial moment &endash;&endash;as we have reached it.
We've got thermonuclear weapons, biological weapons,
particle&endash;beam weapons, we have psychotropic weapons
&endash;&endash;we can't continue to live the way we have any longer.
NOW, if we don't make this adjustment, this coming to terms with who
we are, why we're here, how we came to be here, and where we're
supposedly going &endash;&endash;we're going down into the abyss.
It'll be the end of this species. It'll be one little footnote in the
great galactic book: "Well, those people on the third planet in the
little system didn't make it. They self-destructed." And I think
that's probably happened thousands and thousands of times.
I believe we're at that point where we either have to make it, and
get off the planet; go out and take our place in space with other
intelligences out there &endash;&endash;OR, we're going to
self-destruct. We can't continue ... and those intelligences out
there are not about to let us come "out there" with our (war making)
baggage. They're going to keep us quarantined here until we
self-destruct, or until we do come to terms with this, (our) new
reality; make this paradigm shift, as painful as it's going to be.
And with hope, step out into that vast community.
To me it's clear as it can be ... I don't know how to get this
info out to the masses of people. I and a few others in this (effort)
are trying as best we can, in our limited way to do it. But we're at
a crucial moment in our history as a species and as a race!
R.K: In your discussion with these think tank and
philanthropic representatives, have such considerations been made
(e.g. BSW Foundation, CSETI, Arlington Institute, Laurence
Rockefeller, et al)?
B.D.: Oh yes. They've come to similar conclusions. (But)
they're at a loss, as many of us are, as to how they can bring
(their) conclusions to the attention of the lawmakers; to those who
make the rules and are the centers of power. That's why I'd
like to see this done through the U.N. But, I'm not sure it's
possible. Because the United States sits with its big thumb poised
over the U.N. Any time the U.N. comes up with an issue the U.S.
dislikes, they cut off funding; close to 60&endash;65% of U.N.
budgets, for years! Big money talks!
It's like what happened in the European Community Parliament not
long ago. This was brought up ... to make an issue of the
U.F.O./alien involvement; establish a program of research in that
body to deal with it.
Guess who withdrew their support for that issue? We're (the U.S.)
not even a member of the E.C. and we shot it down?
R.K: Oh, you mean the "European UFO Observation Center"
proposal by E.C. Parliamentarian and physicist Tullio Regge. He was
commissioned to prepare an official report on E.T. intelligence etc.,
for the E.C. Parliament Committee on Energy, Research &
Technology. Regge's report was presented 12/1/93; as reported, The
Guardian newspaper ...
B.D.: And the U.S., somehow, brought pressure to bear (via
member states) and stopped it!
R.K: ( In this question, you have to imagine you are
voicing a subtle declaration &endash;&endash;then, elaborate). "We
honor the illusion of the 'the end' (of history), and our purposes
are accomplished (in the quest) if we can convey some general
realizations, re motions by the philosophic empire, from the complete
secrecy of its origins to its final emergence as the 'Natural'
government of the world ..."
The reason there's worth in posing this to you, centers on your
personal experience with and investigation of the implied "keepers of
truth." Yet, more pertinently, amongst increasing numbers of people
concerned about our Constitutional Crisis, these folks, rightly or
wrongly, have deduced that a New Global Order is basically a paradigm
shift with "spin control" factored in by those elite who
require there will be a very new order. Namely, those who
believe they "know," or possibly even do know, the
secret history of their origin in world history; the true terra/lunar
history, including a possible E.T. presence; thinking they're better
positioned to determine our future, denying a democratic consensus re
directions the planet shall take. And, of course, now is the time,
right? Many speak of 'New Age' etc., etc. The New Economic Order
could be considered a Different Age. So, in achieving this goal, must
"They," to some de&endash;tree reveal. their "illuminated"
role in all of history, as in fact the case? And that a different
form of governance is now required; given our temporal identity, and
technological ground of being?
Thus, becoming the "ultimate spin" on revealing an E.T. presence
... aspiring control over a situation increasingly difficult to even
control ...
B.D.: You have asked many questions I have been giving a
lot of thought to; that I'm focusing my anger and my rage in the
wrong direction. (Perhaps) our government is not really that much in
control; has never been. And like Disraeli said a few times, people
never quite understood, that if the average person knew what real
power and intelligences were behind the operations, national
governments ... they'd be shocked. Now, precisely what he referred to
I don't know. I've often suspected he was referring to the same thing
Charles Fort referred to; what William Bramley refers to ... WHAT IF
... I throw this out as a possibility to you. And I don't have an
answer for you &endash;&endash;What if "The Gardeners" of this little
plot, the "landowners," the "landlords," as the Carpenter from
Galilee referred to it in some of his parables. What if ... the Koran
is true; What if, the Bible is true; What if, the Bhagavad Gita is
true? What if, all our so&endash;called governments, and our wars,
and our bloodshed, and our savagery, and the terrible history of the
human race has not been at all what we might suspect...?
We are indeed products! And part of a vast, intricate, long term
biological/sociological experiment.
We have now reached a point where we can blow up the "Laboratory;"
where we can eliminate all of the "trained mice"; where the
lab&endash;experimenter, technician and director is now going to
intervene ...
I throw that out (to stimulate thought).
R.K: Mention the book you've found so helpful in this area;
and substantiates Sitchin's work.
B.D.: &endash;"The Genius of the Few," by Christian
O'Brien, 1985, published in Britain. It's a masterpiece! It even goes
further than Sitchin. O'Brien is a Sumerian scholar of incredible
capability and credential.
He translates a series of cuneiform tablets dealing with the
establishment of the first research center at Kharsag, Lebanon, on
Mt. Hermon; where the first "landing" apparently took place. There
are historical records to prove the Anunnaki
&endash;&endash;the first time they arrived
&endash;&endash;landed on Mt. Hermon, Lebanon. And they indeed had a
hand in constructing that inexplicable thing we've got there called
Ba'albek terrace (built with 200 ton stones).
As a student of history and theology, I've always been shocked by
the similarities of passages in the Koran, the Bible and the Gita.
This is not just a coincidence. You talk about synchronicity
&endash;&endash;It all strikes me as a part of a vast, intricate,
intelligent plan. And when we come to this world, when we incarnate
for our little prancing time on the stage, as Shakespeare liked to
say &endash;&endash;We're all players playing our roles
&endash;&endash;we come out of the wings, we prance across the stage,
we rehearse and say our lines and (exit) as our time is over. The
human life experience is just a dribble of time.
What if &endash;&endash;we're part of an incredibly vast, planned,
purposeful, intelligent program of some kind?
R.K: Creation, by any other name!
B.D.: Where will you go with these ideas? And I'm not
restricted by any preconceived ideas. I don't have an awful lot to
un&endash;learn. We discussed, earlier, the people with all of the
(respectably educated) knowledge. But they can't possibly begin to
gain any true knowledge, until they un&endash;learn all the crap they
learned before! I'm fortunately not crippled in that way. Because I
don't have a lot of letters behind my name.
R.K: so, we can be true scientists!
B.D.: You bet! I'm not what you'd call a scholar. I'm just
a nosy, curious person who asks a lot of questions . . .
7/8/95
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